Mark Jones Interview
Interview with Mark Jones
April 1, 2023 Memorial Stadium Champaign, IL (0:00-16:30)
KB: Karina Belotserkovsky MJ: Mark Jones
KB: I'm Karina and we are recording on April 1st at the Farm Aid History Harvest. OK. And before we start, I'd like you to just say and spell your name.
MJ: Sure. Mark Jones M-A-R-K J-O-N-E-S.
KB: OK. So from what you've said, I understand that you were at the Farm Aid concert, correct?
MJ: Yes
KB: OK, So were you living in Champaign at the time?
MJ: We had a photography studio on Arthur and we were down there. And, what got me over here to do Farm Aid was when Willie Nelson called and asked me if I was available and this was late summer of that year and [he] asked me if I was available to do photography on the 22nd [of Septmeber] and I said “Yes,” and he says, “Well, would you be interested in photographing, you know, Farm Aid,” and I said “Well, yeah,” I said “What's Farm Aid?” And then he explained, you know, it was to help the American farmer. And it was Bob Dylan's idea and Live Aid. And then he, Willie, ran with it. And then Willie got together a huge number of stars to perform in this benefit concert. It was just, you know, there's nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come, and Willie certainly proved it with that just like Professor Gilbert is proving it with this project that that he's organized. So I asked Willie, I said, “Well, yeah,” I said, “You know, and I'm happy to do it, but, you know why are you calling me?” He says, “Well, you photographed me in ‘82 at the Illinois State Fair. You know, when we sold it out three nights in a row.” I said, “Yeah.” He said, “Those were the best photos I've ever had taken in concert. So, that's why I'm calling you. Simple as that.” And I said “OK.” And then I didn't hear anything from him or from his associates until we got up here and then he was over here at the old Chancellor Hotel and that's when we got with him and talked about what he needed. The most important thing to him at that point was the fact that Bob Dylan had wanted to do a sound check and they weren’t going to do sound checks for anybody but Dylan at Live Aid is when he announced, “It's too bad we can't do something like this for the American farmer,” and when they announced that, because they did not allow sound checks at that venue, and so he gets here and they weren’t going to have sound checks here either. But, at the last second when he finally agreed that he was going to be here, which I don't know, probably 72 hours ahead of time. I'm not real sure about that, but he said he was going to be here. Then, I get a call from one of Willie's managers and [they] ask me, “Could you come up here on the 21st and photograph this sound check?” He said, “You're the only guy. You'll be our only photographer for that night.” And I said, “Yeah, sure, I can do that too.” And then that's how it happened.
KB: OK. And so just to clarify, you photographed all of Farm Aid, like through the concert or did you just photograph the soundcheck?
MJ: No, it was both. It was, oh, yeah, we were here all day the next day photographing the concert. But you see that film? Of course, it was all film at the time and because I was working for the Farm Aid people you know, they would have people to collect the film, like a newspaper type deal, and then it would go back. They didn't process it here in town. It went to Nashville and it was processed down there and then, you know, that's the last I saw of it. Now, I still have some because, you know, photographers are, you know, even though they might tell you you're going to get all these negatives back, sometimes that doesn't always happen, so you know you just need to take advantage of it where you got it in your pocket, and if they don't want it right at that moment, then you know, then I I'll get it processed and then send them the prints which they were OK with. But, you know, that’s how I got alerted to that was during the sound check because the sound check was something that was, it's the first time I'd ever been really involved with anything that size. I mean, there's never been anything like it before, you know I mean, you know, they're using the stage from Woodstock, you know, so they could....It was just, I knew a lot of the sound guys that were here and we chatted because a lot of them were from the Champaign area, but a lot of them were from the Chicago area as well. Jam Productions I know was heading up the credentialing, which is another wild story. But anyway, at the sound check when I got up here, you know, we were told, you know, if you asked for Dylan’s autograph you’re fired. OK, you know, all right, that's not unusual with certain artists like that, you know. And there was no photography allowed during that soundcheck except what I took because Willie wanted photos of that sound check because Dylan insisted on it. That's why they had it and it was late. It was midnight or so before we ever got around to it. Tom Petty had done a sound check right before Dylan. And you know, Dylan and Petty played together then during his soundcheck and then right after that, Petty and Dylan went on tour together. So, you know, you just never know what's going to happen when these people, when these musicians who exist in some other rarefied universe that runs parallel to us and every now and then they manifest and we get to be around them for a few hours. It’s just all kinds of things that can happen when people like that get together. People at the top of their game, world famous, and Willie Nelson managed to get them all here in Champaign for this benefit concert, which is really remarkable, with the proceeds going to the American farmer, which has continued for 38 years, continued to this day. It's an amazing story and the people who were involved knew it was important. But you know, we haven't heard anything about it for years, you know, until a friend of mine sent me a little blurb that said, you know, Professor Gilbert was doing this today and the hours. And so we go, “OK.” And then I heard it on the WDWS early one morning on the radio show that you were doing something, well, let's see if there's any interest in what I've got in after a long chat with him: Yeah, there certainly is. But the sound check, the stories and the sound check, really, you really get a feeling for what it's going to be like the next day. And, you know, years ago when I worked for Ansel Adams until he passed in ‘84. From ‘79 to ‘84.And he always told us, he said, “You know, you're going to if you're good, you're going to get involved in situations where you're dealing with really successful people, powerful people, and it's going to be almost an alien landscape to what the normal business that you're involved in in photography.” So, what he told us that he always did when he was involved in situations like that, because there's always chaos, there’s always issues, there's always problems, people are losing their heads all over the place. It's absolute...It can be insanity, you know, and they're asking you what you think. And he says, “just take a step back and maintain a clinical attitude and watch. And, you remember what you're supposed to be doing at this particular event you're at or assignment and then somebody will eventually come up to you and ask you what you think, and then you tell them how you want to do it.” And that's what I did. It worked out great and that was the ultimate chaos was that night. It was just so many stars coming in and so many...the sound system was enormous. And you know, this all had to be assembled, you know. I don't know. Illinois was playing football. Just happened to be away that weekend. So, all this had to be assembled and just record time. It's amazing that they got it done, but like I said before, you know, there's nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come. Willie certainly hit on one and I think your professor did too. Before all of us go to that great dark room in the sky, or the photographers do anyway.
KB: OK. And so, another point of clarification, your background was in concert photography or general photography?
MJ: We had a studio down in Arthur. [We] did a lot of commercial work, also did portraits, weddings, all that type of stuff, you know. You got, you know, Ansel Adams always tells a story that, you know, he had assignments from without and those were the things that he did for other people [who] wanted photographs. And they would. And he did those so that he could boil the pot. And he said, not the marijuana pot, you know, this was so you could boil a pot of food for your family so they can eat. And then he said, when you have some free time, then you work on the assignments from within. And that's when you go out and you see a tree or grass or clouds or whatever and all of a sudden you have an emotional response to that and then you want to make an image of that. Pretty bad and you do and that's because of that emotional response that came from within. And if you get paid for that, great. But if you don't, that's OK too, because it's at another level. So that's always the philosophy that I have lived by and that's probably one reason why I got along with him because he has the same way and he took photography to a whole new level, you know. He's using 8 x 10, 11 x 14 view cameras and he had assistants carry those big babies, big boys with him. But anyway, it worked out well. I always enjoyed photographing, you know, lots of people don't like to be involved in those situations where it's a real fluid situation and there's chaos everywhere because it's hard to flex and to deal with that from time to time. And I've always kind of enjoyed it as long as things go well. Eventually, I've always enjoyed being able to do that and handle that. And [I have] always loved being around in the musical business, you know. And many people like myself, when that show was here in town, you know, we were part of that and we were on the fringe, granted. We were on the fringe of it. But we got to experience what it was really like to work in an environment where it's rarified air, you know. You've got Johnny Cash. You've got Billy Joel. It just goes on and on and on. And these are all the people that we listen to, you know, at that stage. And Dylan, of course, as soon as I heard Dylan was going to be here, then of course was going to do this, you know, for sure. And that's why the sound check for me was the best part, because that's when I met him. And yes, I asked for his autograph. And no, I did not get fired because there wasn't anybody around, even his people. I can tell you one quick story about when I met Dylan and how that affected the entire Farm Aid concert and it's a great story. I was waiting for his limo. But first, to set the stage, let me tell you this story. I was working with Willie's business manager at the time. His name was Tony Lowe, I think. Well, that might not be his last name, but his first name was Tony and he was a guy who I was really dealing with a lot because he was Willie's right-hand guy at the time. So, I'm just standing around with a sound check, getting ready, you know, and Bob Dylan is standing there talking to David Allan Coe. And Tony comes up and says, “Hey, I need a photo of me just over there talking with these guys. No flash, no pose. I said, “OK.” So, I'm getting my camera out and this guy comes up to me with a clipboard and he says, “You're not thinking about taking any pictures back here?” I said, “Yeah,” I said, “You know, I'm working for Tony over here and you know he's with Willie Nelson. And Tony just wants to get a couple of photos. No pose, no flash or anything like that of him standing next to Bob and David Allen Coe.” And this guy puts his clipboard in front of my camera and says, “**** him, no pictures.” Can I say **** on this? No, of course I can't. OK, we'll cut that out.
KB: No, say what you want.
MJ: But, I'm thinking, so then Tony comes over and says, “You get that shot?” I said, “No.” I said, “He came over, he said, ‘put this clipboard in front of the camera.’ He wouldn’t let me take it!” I just should have taken it anyway. And then Tony goes, “No, no.” He said, “That's Dylan's road manager and if you had taken that shot #1:You'd have been fired. I probably would have been fired. Dylan wouldn't have performed and all hell would have broken loose.” I said, ”OK. All right.” That was just like within the 1st ten minutes I got here. I'm thinking well, this is going to be an interesting experience to say the least. Well, you know, when you're with people like that, they ask you to do something once or they tell you, and if you don't do it, you're fired. They give you a chance. And what, you don't think I meant it? You're fired. And you go, “Tony, he just fired you. You're out!” So, I'm glad I didn't do it, you know. I'm glad I didn't do it. So, when Dylan is on stage, I think it's probably around 11, maybe midnight, when he gets up there to perform and he's dressed in his motorcycle jacket and sunglasses, engineer boots. A buddy of mine who's a Dylan fan, said, “That was probably what he had [on during] his motorcycle wreck in 1966.” He said, “From the age of that jacket that's what it looks like.” Which is not unusual I guess. But anyway, Dylan hadn’t handled out photos of him since 1966 at concerts, you know. Unless they were specifically for him. So, he's up on stage and so I said, “You know, I'm going to go ahead and photograph.” Nobody told me I couldn't photograph him on stage. (16:30-33:00)
MJ: So, I'm up there and I'm shooting mainly with him. I was shooting with a Hasselblad which is 2 1/4 frame and I've got some examples out there in that case. You can make really big prints out of those, and they're really sharp and clear and under pretty low light conditions because we didn't have all the spotlights on that night. So, I was using that camera. I used some 35’s, but I mainly used that Hasselblad. I'm over on stage right, you know, as you're looking out towards the crowd, because Dylan's right-handed, so you want to be on that side of the stage so you get the fingers playing the guitar. And I hear this guy behind me and he's going...there's a few stagehands that were standing out in front, and they had cameras and I heard him tell him, “No pictures, no pictures, no pictures, no pictures, no pictures!” So, I go around the back of the stage and get to the other side to get away from this guy, you know, at least until Dylan starts to perform. So, now Dylan's out there performing and here this guy comes. I'm just waiting to get hit in the head with that clipboard. But, and I hear him tell these other stage hands on that side, “No photos, no photos, no photos, no photos.” And then he comes up to me. I just kept shooting. I didn't look at him. I just kept shooting. He stood there and they walked away. I guess he must have checked me out; I'm sure he did. So we shoot that and then just as I take 1 foot off the stage to go down because I'm going back to my darkroom and process that film, that black and white film to make sure, you know, it looks good, which I knew it would, but I, you know, I wouldn’t wait. I took 1 foot off that stage and there's one of the associate producers there and he says “I need your film.” I said, “Oh, well, I've really got to process of this. This is Tri-X pro and, you know, it's rated it at 400, but I've rated it at 800. So I have to process as my darker with a C110. Probably the value should be in a long development so we can keep hold to make those shadow area details come out and then keep the highlight, so we still have detail in the highlight video.” He says, “Don't give me that bullshit. Just give me your film. We got planes waiting out here. We're going to fly to Nashville. We're going to process it.” I say, “Oh boy.” Now what am I going to say? But I'm trying to remember because Sammy Hagar is at sound check. So I'm trying to remember what pocket is that film in. So I handed him the film. He says that he already got it. I said “yeah, that's all I got.” He goes, “that's all he shot with that big camera.” I said, “Yeah.” You know, because I gave him 2 rolls and I gave him all the 35. So it must have been 5 rolls of that. But this guy was pretty sharp. He knew I hadn't given him all of it. But you know, they're not going to search you. You know it's not contraband, but now I'm just trying to decide, geez, do I have those rolls in my pocket? You know, there were two rolls, 12 exposure each. So, that's when I'm getting ready to go back and head back. So I'm packing up my camera equipment because I'm not taking any more photos because, you know, that they're going to always ask me for that film. And you know, I was working for them, so it was their film, but they hadn't bought it yet. But anyway, it was it was theirs. So, I'm packing up my film and now the sound checks over, and now it's about 1, 1:30, and everybody's pretty tired, but Dylan is just standing backstage by himself. He was where they drive down there on the asphalt. And so I said, I don't care if they fire me, I want to ask him because, I've seen, I saw documentaries where people ask him for his autograph. And he says “you don't need my autograph. You don't need it.” Well, he must have known I needed it because I said “Can I get your signature?” He says “Sure.” And it's just him and me. But in between that, a young lady came up and she goes: “Oh, can I get a picture with you, Bob?” And, I'm putting that autograph away and Bob goes, “Yeah.” And then all of a sudden, here's this road manager with this clipboard because her boyfriend's taking the picture, and he says “No pictures, no pictures” and she goes, “But he said I could get a picture taken with him” and you know, the road manager looks at Bob and, you know, he made some gesture and the road manager throws up his hands and walks off. And then, so you know, I'm going, because I want to talk to him just for a second. So I go back up and then another chick jumps in. And her boyfriend says “Let's get a photo.” His camera doesn't work right, you know, and so I show him how to work his camera because he was nervous. She's nervous. And if I didn't help him out, he was not going to have a good time that night. So, I I think I did my duty. Anyway, the road manager is gone. So they did that, and now Bob's limo's pulling in and they leave. So I'm next and I tell him, I said, “You know, I really liked the song ‘Trust Yourself’ tonight.” He says, “You like that song?” I said, “Yeah, I really do.” He says, “How do you think it sounded tonight?” I said, “ thought it sounded great.” He said “You did?” I said “yeah.” He said, “We didn't think it sounded so good. You thought it sounded good?” I said, “Mhmm,” He said, “OK, we're leaving now.” So he gets in his limo and off he goes. So I go to ours, I process the film and sure enough, there it is. Everything's fine. So, I don't know what time I get back up there, at 4:00 in the morning. I'm staying with a bunch of sound guys. They put us up in a hotel in town, and we get back over there early, at like at 6:00 AM, you know, because it was a full day. So I just get back there and they haul us over, which was nice. Full sirens during the traffic at 6 in the morning, but nevertheless, he brings us over, and brought me over. Then I just get out of there and I'm walking backstage and there's another associate producer. He's talking to some guy. I don't know who this was, but he goes, “This guy is mad.” he says. He says, “You know, we had Dylan talked out of doing that song, ‘Trust Yourself.’ and we don't know who he talked to, but he said it sounded good and now he wants to leave it in. And you know, our contract says we can't cut away when he's performing. That's going to cost us $400,000 in AD revenue. We're not going to get it! If I could find that guy, I’d strangle him.” I just, you know, kind of backpedal my way out of there and go sit in somebody's car over there. That's why they keep the bottom feeders, like me, away from the stars because one little conversation can cost them 400 grand, one little conversation. And you know, I I love being around that sort of thing for a while. Could I ever make a living existing in that? No, because I'd be divorced so many times, you know, I wouldn't have any money, because you just can't, you know. But those guys do it. And you know, most of those guys only sing songs that that mean something to them and they can, they can get that across emotionally to the audience. Especially the singer-songwriters like Willie and Dylan, but there's something else. It was a great time, I'd say the least. And after it was all over with, and everything worked out OK. It was, It was great. But, you know, I've got a large photo out here of the fireworks over Farm Aid at the end. And you know, it's like midnight or after. And it rained on us. And, you know, people were pretty much gone. They couldn't sell booze in Memorial Stadium at the time, but they brought plenty.
KB: Can you talk more about the day of Farm Aid? Like what the crowds were like, what the experience was like? You know.
MJ: OK, yeah, you can lead off of that story I just told about the about the guy wanted to strangle me and deservedly so. If that was me, I would want to strangle me too. I think he was right on on that deal. I think that was the first time I ever realized this was at six in the morning. You know that day, wow, just talking to these stars could really have an impact on everything. Let me tell you a story about Jam Productions and the credentials. There are all kinds of different credentials. You know, I had one that was backstage. You know, it's all access, so I didn't have an issue. But, there were other credentials that you could come in right over here and they would bring you in. It was a way that they brought guests in and they could bring them in, and then you didn't have to pay, and you went right to the infield, fairly close to the front of the stage, and those passes were green. And you check in down here. Now this is probably 6:30 in the morning and Jam was instructing their people on these credentials and they color-coded them, so it was really easy to know who was who, mine was red and it's really easy to tell where they were supposed to go. So, the guy says, “Now look, you don't let anybody go anywhere unless they have the right credential. You know, at a big crowd like this and a lot of stars, that's just the rules.” And they all go, “OK, OK. OK.” Well, there was this young lady they had watching for those credentials down there. She was probably about you kids' age and a nice girl, but one of the first guys that comes in, if he probably planted this guy, he comes in and he and he didn't have any credential and he says, “yeah, my brother's working on a sound thing. I'm supposed to bring him a piece of equipment, you know, for the sound system.” So she goes, “OK, go ahead.” And this guy from Jam materializes, and I learned a lot of choice swear words from that cat that day because every other word he could use them as nouns, pronouns, adverbs, adjectives, you name it. And he was reaming her out on how wrong this was and how much chaos this can create you. “You cannot let anybody pass unless they got the right credentials. You hear what I'm saying” And you know all the other people who were watching credentials or taking tickets all listened to this. You know, your eyes are getting really big, like, geez, this guy really means business. And he he goes, “I'm watching you. You do that one more time. You're fired.” And she never did it. Again, I mean you, if you didn't have the right credential, you were only going to go where that credential will let you go. And that's the way it had to be. And that's the only way you can get people's attention is by just picking somebody as an example when they screw up. You get one chance. They give you a chance, you know. But she learned. Quick, brutal. Because you know, you got men standing around going, you know, I'm gonna beat this guy, you know, cause he was so rude, but. Welcome to the music business.
KB: Do you have any memories of you know, the crowd?
MJ: Oh, the crowd. Oh, the crowd was massive. I mean, oh, you got within 20 yards of that stage and you couldn't move. You couldn't get any closer and that was, that was always kind of an issue. My job was really not to come out into the crowd that much. My job was more to photograph from the from the sides of the stage, which is where your best shots are. There was a photographer’s pit that you could go down into, but that was almost too close. You know, you're always looking right up their nostrils. And it was, that wasn't the best. So I would just stay out in the crowd with a long lense, but it got so hectic, it got so packed when there were so many people there, depending on what star was performing, of course. But I'll tell you a funny story. You know, they had Porta Potties out on 50 yard line. And the first time I went out there, there was some bikers there and they were rocking one of these porta potties, and they knocked it over. And the door opens and another biker buddy comes out of that Porta Potty with all that goo all over him, you know, and then later on I saw this guy, several hours later, and he'd go up towards the front of the stage, and the crowd would part like Moses parting the Red Sea. And he had a piece of toilet paper hanging out of his hair, so I knew it was him. He had no problem getting right to the front of the stage. Nobody wanted to get close to him. I thought, you know, that's a pretty good idea. That's a pretty good idea, but they dumped over several of those and they had to get a new football field, had to get football field replaced. That was one of those things. You know, they had 4x8 sheets of plywood under the whole field or on top of the whole field and then canvas. But, there were lots of interesting things like that thathappened. Some I can tell you some I can't. No, not after this many years. But you're a little young, anyway. But what it gave people like us also a taste of, too, was being around those types of superstars and all of the what went into it. Like the day before on that sound check, the guy was, I think he was out of Chicago area, but I'm not sure about that. He was the one; He had two mics on to communicate with his sound people and he had one radio on, I think, you know, one was a backup just in case the battery was dead on this one because it was like a CD radio. He talked and they were having a lot of trouble with the sound. They were getting feedback and it was, you know, and we're all standing around going “Geez.” I'm out there with the Neil Young and Willie at the time and this was the next, no, it had to be that day. It might not have not been Willie, It might have been Chris Christofferson and, and, I know Neil Young, I know it was him. But they were like the organizers, to some extent, I know Young was, but anyway. Yeah, and Willie certainly was. You know, everyone was kind of, you could tell they were a little nervous about the sound because it just didn't sound, you know, it was distorted or would feedback and God, these guys were trying everything they could think of. And so I just happened to be standing there, and this guy who was in charge of this, he calls a buddy of his who's in Chicago, and tells him the problem he's having and this guy says “I'll,” he said. “I'll,” he said “I'll come down” and he said “OK.” So a couple hours later, and for some reason I was there again because I was on stage. So they're talking and he's hearing the feedback and all this stuff and all, and all, of a sudden he goes “Stan, you know those two mics you got right next to each other right there on your PADO? Call your other, your other light technicians.” He says, “that, that's what's causing your feedback.” And sure enough, he takes one of those off, and it sounds crystal clear. So I don't know what they paid that guy, but he was worth every penny. But you know, when you're putting all that together here, which is completely different than being in a theater or anywhere else because it's never been done here before. And then you're like, you don't know what's wrong, and they don't know what they're going to have to do to fix it. And nobody can figure it out. And then all of a sudden it's fixed in 10 seconds. That was a big relief, even for somebody like me, who was just, you know, working, but you feel those vibes from these. It’s a lot of pressure, jeez. (33:00)
KB: Karina Belotserkovsky
MJ: Mark Jones I: Interviewer (33:00-49:17)
MJ: ‘Cause they can’t get that sound fixed, this show ain’t gonna go on.
KB: Okay, so-
MJ: What else you wanna know- Okay the day of the concert?
KB: Yeah.
MJ: The day of the concert was just unbelievable. The amount of stars that they had, and they had coming in, one after the other, and you’re-you’re hearing them, and you’re seeing them, you’re photographing them, and they’re some of the greatest stars in the music world at the time. And you know, you’re always thinking, you know, ‘cause we’re using film, so, “I hope the exposure’s good and blah blah blah blah blah,” and you know, “hope this comes out okay.” But yet, at the same time, it was enormous to be that close to that many people in the music business, because the music business is so immortal. Songs are so immortal. I mean, I listen to music I listened to fifty years ago. The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Willie Nelson, Bob Dylan, you know, all those. And you still- They’re still relevant, at least those old guys, like me, still relevant to this very day. Even Frank Sinatra, who I didn’t grow up with, but he’s certainly a terrific singer, to say the least. And, that’s where music is so, so far reaching, for so many years. And that’s what they were creating up here that day. And, you know, I grew up on a farm. We live on a farm. So the American farmer is really important. And that’s who the whole benefit concert was for, for the American farmer. Who were my relatives, and friends of mine. And Willie and Dylan saved countless farmers from going under. And if you could keep them afloat for a year, then their bankers would usually adjust things so they could keep farming. And Farm Aid was instrumental in providing the funding, so they could keep going until the next go around, with the- with uh… ‘cause every year farmers have to get upfront money to start planting. And uh, Farm Aid was instrumental in helping, and they helped the right farmers. It wasn’t like a government program where you never know who’s gonna get helped for sure. But if a farmer had the needs, and could show he had the needs, by, you know, with his accountant or with his bookkeeping, he got the money to keep farming. All thanks to these guys, and it happened- started right here. It’s phenomenal. Right here in the midwest. And you know, Illinois is an oasis in the middle of a desert as far as intellectual thinking and everything else goes, you know. And it’s- we’re fortunate, to say the least. You know, I mean, I shot sports here for thirty-three years. That was one of the greatest experiences of all time, you know. You were- That’s where-That’s where I met, you know, um, Bill, um…um…He was in CaddyShack, Bill uh-
KB: Bill Murray.
MJ: Yeah! That’s him.
KB: Bill Murray.
MJ: Bill Murray. Yeah, I got to know him real well.
KB: Oh, that’s nice!
MJ: In fact, he uh- Shawn Waxler took a picture of he and I together when we were in Chicago ‘cause he talked to the team. And then uh, and then um, so I got it printed up. And then, when we were in St. Louis, you know there was a lot of people around him up in the stands, so I just, I just charged my way up there. You know, I had to go “Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me,” right before the game, “excuse me, excuse me,” ‘cause I wanted to get his autograph on there. “Excuse me, excuse me,” and I get up there to him and he goes “Impressive.” Sorry that was just a little side story. But once again, you know, you’re dealing with people who are in the rarified air of entertainment. You know, thanks to movies for Bill, and, and music for the musicians, you know, they’ll live forever. And not to mention, somehow Willie Nelson was able to put this together and get all these musicians to play here at a benefit concert. It just-It’s never happened before or since.
KB: So, I was wondering, it was actually my next question, If you could like maybe elaborate on your personal connection to the farming crisis and Farm Aid, because I know you just mentioned-
MJ: Mhm.
KB: -you’re from farm family, right?
MJ: Mhm.
KB: In this area?
MJ: Yeah, just south of here, down by Arthur in the, uh, in the, like we said before, in the heart of Amish country, but, no I’m not Amish. But um… yeah my, my uh- let’s see it would’ve been my great-grandfather that actually came from Germany and bought-bought the land, and then they drained it. And then, he was in his forties, I think, and then he married another German girl from over here. She was eighteen. So, I knew her, a little bit, you know. She passed, um, I don’t know, when I was still in grade school. But I did know her, she spoke fluent German. And uh, but they’re the ones that bought all the farm ground. And then, most people, um, back-back then, a lot of kids my age still owned- or were going to own farm ground. An-and, the farm was never- you pretty much stayed a farmer for generations at that-at that point. And that’s just the way it-it worked. And, but then… So yeah, I grew up on a farm.
And then um, Beth and I moved to make training movies for the railroad mopac down in St. Louis for a few years, and then, moved back up here and started the photography business in ‘75. After forty-some years, we’re still, still going alone, you know. When you get older, you know, you tend to wanna do things…Like my dad said, he didn’t like being retired because he said you never get a day off. And you don’t. You know, I thought, “Oh sure, Pop,” but he was right. You don’t get a day off. You might not make any money, but you don’t get a day off.
But, um, but there were certainly friends of ours who- whose families- they were younger farmers who had borrowed money. Usually they bought farm ground. Farm ground was high then. Well, so they borrowed money on it and then farm ground dropped, and then-but they were still liable for those loans at that high price. And a lot of them just had- just couldn't quite scrap, get the money together and they were losing their farms. What Farm Aid did, they came in and they helped them to raise the money to pay the interest payments on those loans. And then the next year, when they-when they made loans that were a lot cheaper, and these guys were able to keep going. It was usually younger farmers, not always but usually, who didn- who had debt, and it was usually from buying farm up.
But see, when I sta- when I farmed as a kid, you know you only had um- you know, we had two M’s and an H, and they could do ‘bout what a team of horses could do, which was what everybody had at the time. Before that, it was teams of horses. But then as the farm equipment got bigger and bigger, you had to have more ground to farm to justify the hundreds of thousands of dollars that farm equipment cost. And that’s where these younger fellas got into a little difficulty. And uh- but Farm Aid- Farm Aid helped a lot more farmers than any government program did. And they were great. I mean, they saved a lot of people’s lives. You know, if you can imagine having to move off the farm where you grew up, and because you got a little overextended, and you knew it was gonna be okay the next year if you could just get through that. And um, before Farm Aid they weren't making it.
But Farm Aid was really big, huge impact. At the time when- that this concert was taking place, you know, we really didn't think it would have any impact at all, you know, because it had never been done before. But boy, did it ever. And that’s great. And it’s amazing that, to this day, that they had the first one right here. Right where we are, which had never happened. I mean, let’s face it, this ain’t- the airport is close to here, because when we fly into football or basketball games, this is by far the closest airport to the venue, is here in Champaign. Any place else you go, you got a forty-five minute bus ride minimum. So, and a lot of these entertainers flew in for the show, did their gig, and then they flew out that day. You know, they did it as a favor to Willie, but they also believed in helping the American Farmer. As long as that money was justified, going to those ‘cause a lot of scammers when you're giving away money. But they-Willie’s organization had a terrific screening process, and um, they got the money to the people who needed it. And it worked, and it’s still working till this day. It’s an unbelievable story. It’s a remarkable story. And they did it with entertainment, they did it with songs.
KB: Do you have anymore like, sort of vivid memories of Farm Aid, like either the concert or sort of impact on the area?
MJ: Well, I can’t tell you some of those things, but um…maybe later. It was just a really, um, it was a positive experience for everybody. Even though the weather, it rained, you know, a lot, but that really didn't deter anybody from going to the show. I mean, let's see, my wife had our…let’s see…don’t tell her, our eight year old son was up here with her that day. You know, they went. So many people went. It was just such a, such an unusual event. Once in a lifetime event, ‘cause I don’t think they’ll ever have another event like that here. I mean if Governor Thompson hadn’t been behind it when Willie called, I don’t think it-it could’ve happened, you know. But Thompson liked entertainment, he liked the entertainment business, and he and Willie were friends. And uh, and when you got the Governor saying, you know, “We wanna do this Farm Aid concert here at Memorial Stadium,” it’s gonna happen. And it did, and to the great benefit to so many people. You know, it was just, it was remarkable what Willie put together that day. And, you know, even though Dylan came up with the idea- And by the way, when he, when he’s on stage at Live Aid and he says, “You know it’s too bad we can’t do something like this for American Farmers.” You got the producers at Live Aid going, “What are we supposed to tell these people that call in and say they want to donate to American Farmers?!” You know, they were just saying, “They don’t wanna donate to us, they wanna donate to American Farmers!” So, you know, obviously, once again there’s nothing so powerful like this as time has come, but Dylan knew, you know, at the time, he wasn’t the one to organize this concert. You know that wasn’t going to happen, just, you know. But Willie, yeah Willie could do it, and he did it. All those- all those friends of his that came in and performed, it was just…It’s still amazing to me to this day when you look at that list of who was here. I got a video tape that Beth found that we made of most of that concert. And I don’t know, I’m sure you got access to video tapes, don’t you? Good, good, good, ‘cause it’s something else. Um, I don’t know if there’s anything else.
KB: Yeah, I was just going to ask, if there’s anything else you wanted to say?
MJ: Maybe after a couple of cocktails. There’s some really good stories, but…
KB: You sure you can’t tell any of them, or none of them?
MJ: I’ll have to…You know it was a long time ago, let me run those through my mind here. I’ve got a lot of photos that I’m going to be… I wanted to come up here first to determine how much I actually wanted to participate in this, and um….I’m convinced that you guys have got something going here that needs to be done, that should be done, that is being done. And I was-I’m pleasantly surprised at how so much interest there is from people your kids’ age. You know, that’s what- I thought they were all gonna be old like me. So uh, of course, you know, the ones who are my age remember it. ‘Cause a lot of my friends, you know…You know, it’s amazing, and I’m still around. You know, I didn’t take the best care of myself, I’ll confess. I’ve never been a hammertoe. I’m in pretty good shape…pretty good shape. It’s amazing. And, of course, I can’t remember whether I drove up here or not or whether JD drove, but I can remember instances like from Farm Aid that are…you don’t forget them. You know, when I took Dylan’s signature, it was on a business card, and I was gonna bring it up here today and I forgot it, but um, it’s probably in a safe too. But um, I put that card in my camera case,and this was in ‘85, and you know, after that, my photographic career just took off, you know. I was doing more commercial work than I was before, then I got a contract with Illinois which was over thirty-three plus years. And not only with sports, but College of Law. And, so, his signature was like a talisman to me, and it just, *mimics blown up sound.* You know that’s never happened to me before or since, and I think a lot of people who were here that day, especially ones that were working, feel the same way. An-and the audience too, you know, this’ll never happen again and it affects people profoundly in different ways, and they never forget it, and it can influence them for the rest of their lives. I mean, you know, I’m still talking about it. And I- to tell you the truth, I really thought that it kind’ve been forgotten, until I got a call from your professor. I couldn’t believe it. And uh, you had such a great turnout. Gosh! Is he here? I’ve never met him.
KB: The professor? Yeah he’s right around here. Do you wanna get him then?
MJ: Yeah I think I’m done here. You’ve got plenty to edit.
KB: Yeah, and if you want to like, um, sort of add more, maybe tell some of those stories you were remembering, you can contact, um, the Champaign History Museum or Spurlock.
MJ: Okay
KB: They’d be happy, you know, to sort of record some of that.
MJ: Great, happy to do it. I: Say sir, do you have our Professor’s email? I think he’d love to have some of those pictures maybe.
MJ: Sure, I’d be happy to bring anything you want, but if he’s taking them they might be out of focus.
KB: I can go grab him.
MJ: No. I’m just kidding, I’m just kidding, I’m just kidding yeah, I’m just kidding yeah. Yeah, we talked like late last night actually. I was out picking up sticks out of the yard ‘cause we had a hell of a wind storm. I’m not sure why I was out there picking sticks up, but you know, if you don’t do it tonight, at night, then Amish drive by the next morning and go “Oh boy Mark’s-Mark hadn’t picked his sticks up yet.”
KB: Okay, so just like, nothing else you wanna add on the record so far?
MJ: I can’t think of anything off-hand…Kanya?
KB: Karina.
MJ: Karina
KB: Yeah, my handwriting’s not… the best.
MJ: You think yours is bad, geez mine is really rotten, Karina.
KB: Okay, so.
MJ: That sounds great. How many kids are actually- or how many students are actually participating in this? Do you-
KB: Just our class, like around thirty-ish people? MJ: Is that right? It’s amazing- (Tape cuts off abruptly)
This set of recordings is of a range of participants in the Farm Aid concert of 1985, and is to be used only for historical research and educational purposes. Interviews were conducted with the express written consent of all participants. This collection was compiled by the Champaign County History Museum and the Spring 2023 History Harvest class at the University of Illinois. These recordings are presented with transcripts of their contents.